Tour de France tires, flattop chains in mud, and rim surface wear – VeloNews.com

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Have a query for Lennard? Please e mail him at veloqna@comcast.net to be included in Technical FAQ.

Pricey Lennard,
Whereas watching the Tour I started to surprise what the groups’ mechanics do with the punctured tires by way of monitoring any information. Do mechanics maintain observe of the sorts of punctures, frequency, floor, and many others. and share with the producers? Is tread put on measured, recorded, and shared? With extra groups utilizing clinchers and rumors of 1 workforce utilizing a foam core I might guess that producers use the Tour as a take a look at lab so if that’s the case, how do they collect their data? I believe it might be fascinating to listen to from the mechanics simply how deep into the weeds they go, or possibly they only toss ‘em?
— Peter

Pricey Peter,
Some groups observe that, and a few groups don’t. The 2 replies right here cowl that extensive gamut.
The primary is a reply from Nick Legan, who was once a WorldTour mechanic for varied WorldTour groups, notably together with Radio Shack on the Tour de France throughout Lance Armstrong’s transient comeback.

“Once I was a mechanic, we weren’t gathering information on tire lifespan. [We were] too busy managing every day. We actually tried to switch tires earlier than a puncture was inevitable, however roads occur.

This may increasingly have modified since then, however professional workforce wrenching may be very pragmatic. Except we noticed lots of punctures with a given tire in a set of circumstances, we might merely change the tire and transfer on.”

— Nick Legan, highway model supervisor, Shimano North America bike

Problem Tires has a distinct perspective. “We have now not been in a position to purchase our method on to a WorldTour workforce however our perennial French Tour workforce has given us insights.

Most groups, even on the high stage, do as Nick says, look ahead to nicks and cuts and strange put on, change as wanted and transfer on. Generally we will get them to maintain a pile of used tires to review, however protecting the vehicles clear takes precedence. We pushed our groups to present us again extra, but it surely was a troublesome balancing act as a result of, in fact, you get what you pay for.

Nonetheless, we did discover out via some extraordinary circumstances that a few groups (well-funded, well-managed) do spend money on the main points. The yr the Tour began on the moist and slippery roads within the UK, after which went on to the moist and slippery cobbles of northern France, our Bretagne/Fortuneo (now Arkéa – Samsic) workforce obtained in a number of breakaways and stayed till being caught. On the second relaxation day, each the Sky (Ineos Grenadiers) and Trek groups got here by to ask them why their riders had so few flats and crashes on the moist surfaces vs. all the opposite groups.

This information was relayed again to us after the mechanics gave us credit score. This led to a few attention-grabbing conferences with these groups (that sadly didn’t precisely result in the hoped-for conclusion) we did study that each groups had their mechanics who had been using within the automobiles monitoring each crash and flat within the entrance group by a workforce.

They assumed that these outcomes would spotlight improved efficiency as riders had been all pushing the sting and the tires would carry out or not so they may study one thing. I additionally assume it was additionally a great way to maintain the mechanics awake.

This led to Continental coming to us to make their cobbled classics tires that mixed our particular seamless latex internal tubes and extra supple casings topped by Conti’s particular tread rubber.

I’ve comparable tales after we labored with Liberty Seguros workforce supervisor Manolo Saiz and chief mechanic Faustino Muñoz and Johan Bruyneel at US Postal. The highest groups pay to essentially observe the main points.”

—Morgan Nicol, Problem Handmade Tires

Pricey Lennard,
Are you listening to about any unintended penalties of the slender SRAM AXS Flattop 12-speed chain design, notably with particles contamination?

My children and I had all of our chains drop throughout final yr’s muddy Colorado State Cyclocross Championships. The chain was visibly contaminated with mud/particles and you might simply see the shortage of seating/engagement with the entrance chainring – in consequence, the chain was sitting excessive on the chainring — not totally seated — and would drop at this web site instantly and repeatedly after placing it again on. The one repair was energy washing and cleansing the chain, which might then work superb till contaminated once more, often after 1 lap of the course. My spare bike was equivalent however with an 11-speed SRAM group had no issues and I used to be in a position to pre-ride and race a number of laps with out a mechanical.

Since then we’ve continued to make use of the very same 12-speed bikes and the difficulty has not recurred; we didn’t see comparable circumstances although. I’ve been a lifelong bike mechanic and have been racing cyclocross for 15 years and haven’t seen this happen in comparable circumstances with 10- and 11-speed setups and I don’t consider the circumstances had been uncommon that day. I suppose I may pit each half-lap like the professionals, however this actually isn’t sensible, and, once more, there have been no issues with my spare 11-speed bike. I additionally suppose I may use a “mullet” setup and use the broader Eagle 12-speed chain, however this introduces a bunch of incompatibility points with cassettes — once more because of the Flattop chain design. And, in any case, the AXS group with the Flattop 12-speed chain is marketed for cyclocross, so searching for an answer in muddy circumstances appears odd.

So, this leads again to my query, is the Flattop 12-speed chain too slender and is the above an unintended consequence of the design? It additionally makes me surprise why the Flattop design was created within the first place, particularly if the Eagle 12-speed group works so nicely? Am I lacking one thing?
— Steve

Pricey Steve,
I wasn’t there this previous yr for Colorado state championships November 23-24. In case your children had been within the junior classes, I’m guessing you all had been racing on Saturday the twenty third, you within the early morning, and them within the late afternoon. At the moment of yr and time of day, maybe it was under freezing, and if it was muddy, then maybe what you had been experiencing was ice (muddy ice with accompanying plant matter frozen in) within the chains.

Just a few years in the past, my daughter had the identical expertise of fixed chain derailment in Colorado state cyclocross championships. Factor is, she was racing on SRAM Pressure 1X11 with a SRAM 11-speed chain, not 1X12 with a 12-speed Flattop chain. It, too, was new to me, and I pulled the unhealthy dad transfer of suggesting that every time it derailed, she saved placing the chain again on with the slender chain gaps onto the fats tooth of the fat-thin-fat-tooth X-Sync chainring. She insisted that she is aware of higher than that and had taken nice care to align the outer hyperlinks over the fats tooth and the internal hyperlinks over the skinny tooth.

Different riders on 1X setups with commonplace chainrings with chain guards, fairly than X-Sync or equal drop-stop wide/narrow chainrings, weren’t having this downside. Then it grew to become clear that the issue was the tall, sq. profile of her X-Sync tooth that had been designed to fully fill the house within the hyperlink, whether or not it was a fats tooth in an outer hyperlink or a skinny tooth in an internal hyperlink. When ice crammed the house between chain hyperlink plates, the chain would journey up on the highest of the tooth. However, the shorter, thinner, chisel-top tooth of normal chainrings would push sufficient ice out of the best way that the chain would keep in place.

My resolution on the time was to put in an MRP chain guide so shut excessive of her chainring that the chain couldn’t journey up. I additionally suspect that the sharper tooth form of the newer SRAM X-Sync 2 chainrings, that are designed to scale back “the buildup of mud, grit and dirt” would have created fewer issues beneath these circumstances.

I’ve answered comparable questions on this up to now, lengthy earlier than the arrival of SRAM 12-speed, so I’m questioning if it’s the Flattop chain or the chainring tooth form that was inflicting your issues.

(I despatched this reply on to Steve and obtained the under response.)
― Lennard

Pricey Lennard,
Thanks for the response; this is sensible to me after wanting on the chainring tooth profiles you despatched – I hadn’t scrutinized them carefully earlier than. One factor I didn’t point out is we had been utilizing an all-SRAM-road-AXS 12-speed group except the chainring, which was a Flattop-chain-compatible ring by Wolf Tooth, since I couldn’t get a SRAM crankset within the shorter crankarm lengths wanted for my children so as to use their proprietary chainring. Thus, the one chainring choice was Wolf Tooth, which I’ve used for years with out a downside, so I didn’t assume twice. However, after wanting on the tooth profiles you despatched, I wager the comparatively sq. tooth profile of the Wolf Tooth chainring is the issue when mixed with the narrower Flattop chain (in different phrases, the Wolf Tooth design doesn’t appear to be an issue with the marginally wider 11-speed chain, and this has been my expertise). Apparently, I contacted Wolf Tooth after the Colorado State Championships final yr and requested them if it might be their tooth design, they usually primarily mentioned it was most likely the chain: a narrower chain — just like the Flattop chain — is extra prone to gather mud and can have a higher probability of packing with mud.

So… the immediate for my e mail to you was in preparation for the upcoming CX season; I used to be making an attempt to see if I wanted to change to a mullet setup with an Eagle RD and Eagle chain for my children, however after your response, I could attempt to get them on SRAM cranks to make use of their X-Sync 2 ring with the sharper tooth fairly than rebuild every part.

PS – concerning the circumstances, it was snowy and icy for me within the morning, however I ended up racing my 11-speed setup, and I had no issues. My children rode within the afternoon, when it was heat, and every part melted, leading to a really muddy course with a lot of mud accumulation on the bikes. They dropped chains within the pre-ride, and my son had a DNF because of his chain dropping in his race. Fortunately, the chains held for my ladies a little bit later within the day (possibly the course dried only a bit in comparison with my son), they usually ended up putting 1-2 within the 9-10 junior race, so it wasn’t all unhealthy.
— Steve

Pricey Lennard,
Thanks for the follow-up! I simply tried your suggestion to measure rim braking surface wear, and it really works rather well. Utilizing a metal 6” ruler as a straight edge, I’m in a position to see the concavity of the rim, however it’s nowhere close to 1 mm deep. I used a normal-sized paper clip and it might not undergo, and I checked the width of the paperclip on the ruler. It’s certainly not higher than 1mm.

I discovered that the entrance is barely extra worn than the rear. And on the rear, one facet is barely extra worn than the opposite. This can be a nice methodology to measure put on, because it doesn’t require any particular instruments and is kind of correct. I believe Park Software may even develop a measurement instrument based mostly on this precept, simply as they’ve a sequence measurement instrument with calibrations to measure a spot.
Marc

Pricey Marc,
Nice thought! I hope Park Software or one other toolmaker reads your observe.
― Lennard

Lennard Zinn, our longtime technical author, joined VeloNews in 1987. He’s additionally a {custom} body builder (www.zinncycles.com) and purveyor of non-custom big bikes (bikeclydesdale.com), a former U.S. nationwide workforce rider, co-author of “The Haywire Heart,” and creator of many bicycle books together with “Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance,” “DVD, in addition to “Zinn and the Art of Triathlon Bikes” and “Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists.” He holds a bachelor’s in physics from Colorado School.

Comply with @lennardzinn on Twitter.